Jesse Malin
By Lauren StrainUpon entering Jesse Malin's dressing room at Sheffield's Club Zero we encounter not only the man himself but also a bowl of jelly babies. This can only be a good thing...
Was music something that ran in your family or did you feel it was an individual outlet for you?
My mom did a little bit of singing but she never really had a career, I think she was a frustrated shower singer. I think she listened to maybe Elvis as a little girl. My dad had a jukebox business with his father, he used to move old pool tables to Harlem and the Bronx so he'd end up with a lot of 45"s so I kinda ended up hearing a lot of the records. Music was definitely in the house but there wasn't necessarily any instruments so I just grabbed, y'know, a can of glue, pretended it was a microphone and jumped around.
Then I'd start to see bands on TV like Kiss. I remember doing a Kiss talent show when I was nine or ten; dressing up in my mother's clothes and make up. That kinda led me into punk music. I saw the Sex Pistols on some TV show and, y'know, I was an angry, hyperactive, rebellious little tyke and I guess Kiss had that anger but then I saw this punk special on TV and it had the Pistols and The Ramones... it seemed to me more relevant and more intelligent in its own structure.
There was such a simplicity in it that reminded me of the fifties music that was played at my parents' house. I was struggling to sit there, learning how to play Jimmy Page and Eddie Van Halen so then I was thinkin': "Wow, this has got three chords, y'know, I can just go write a song and get a gig at CBGB's!"
When I was twelve or thirteen we went to CBGB's with my band Heart Attack and did an audition and we, er... we failed. I think you had to have, like, twenty-five drunk people just to get past the audition! But I kept pushing and eventually started playing when I was thirteen or fourteen at Maxi's and at CBGB's with a lot of the punk which became real hardcore. I was makin' records from when I was fourteen to sixteen and since then there's been a lot of different changes... but to me it's all connected, it's all about that passion and that energy and a love for playing and about songs, really. I don't think the connection's whether it's punk or Elton John or Sam Cook or Discharge or GBH, to me it's about songs.
Yeah, some people would say 'punk music' has to sound a particular way, but it's really the message behind it that's the main thing, that certain statement and idea.
Well yeah, what about Johnny Cash? To me it's attitude. I don't think it's about the t-shirt or the piercings or the whole outfit; it's more about how you feel that makes the difference. It's okay to dress up, I mean, that's an expression too, but I think the real stuff is really underneath the costume.
Do you miss the freshness and rebellion that was there in the beginning stages of punk? You must've seen music change over the years; with a lot of stuff today the magazines are going "Oh, this is punk" and "This is rock", always trying to put people in a specific genre or pigeonhole...
Yeah, I think this stuff has been going on forever. I guess maybe when I was a baby and watchin' that stuff, y'know, 'Rock Music', it had a big heading, what could fall under that? But then it was 'New Wave'; "What's New Wave, what's this, what's that, what are you, psycho blues?" There's always that, that's where critics and press come in, people who wanna limit themselves and, as I've been saying onstage or in interviews for a long time, there's just two kinds of music in the world: Good and Bad, so for me that's what I'm always looking for, it's just that good record.
A lot of people seem to want others to just like one thing and put a label on someone.
Yeah, people say "You! Jesse Malin: singer-songwriter!" To me, The Rolling Stones were one of the best singer-songwriters out. If you're looking for body of work there's just so many great songs. You say 'singer-songwriter' and I think of Gordon Lightfoot or something like that... Joan Baez or James Taylor. They're all good, but I come from a rock place so I don't know what to say except that I play rock n' roll music and I'm into songs. I have an acoustic guitar so am I a country act? I don't really know too much about country music, y'know, I like country music and the Rolling Stones and Johnny Thunders.
At this point, in a way of continuing the discussion about endless genre-classification in music today, I start to ask Jesse if it bothers him that many journalists consistently mention Ryan Adams simply because they're talking about Mr. Malin. Then I realise that by doing this I am being one of those journalists who consistently mentions Ryan Adams simply because I'm talking about Mr. Malin. Object = completely defeated. Hmm, sorry Jesse!
I get the feeling from a lot of records coming out of the US right now, like those by American Music Club and Wilco, that there's a real sense of hopelessness and helplessness over there. Is there that atmosphere?
Yeah, there is a real frustration. I mean, this guy faked himself into the election the first time. Y'know, this is politics, we're musicians. We're artists and here in such a heavy time where it matters so much because this guy is just gonna blow the whole world up. He has no regard for the United Nations, he's got no regard for the old people... it's just all about money and greed for the rich and war. So this is definitely a tense time for the election and there is a lot of apathy. I've noticed, touring America, being out there, that people really like Bush. There's a lot of blind obedience, y'know? That creates a lot of fear and anxiety and frustration. Maybe even a real true vote and victory on the Democrats side to get him out might even be fudged by some inside power mechanisms like last time.
I don't know if it was intended, but there seems to be a political message in songs of yours such as 'God's Lonely People' - in lyrics like 'They killed a man / I almost saw it on TV / But they washed it clean so that kids could dream'.
That record was written very recently. Songs like 'New World Order', 'Mona Lisa' and 'God's Lonely People' were added at the last minute when I was late on touring the record, I missed my deadline and screwed up some of the sales, but I felt that those songs needed to be included. Those two were written right at the last minute and popped in there. We already had a twelve song album but I thought that 'New World Order' needed to be heard because of the climate of the world - it could talk about what was going on in this generation.
In a world like this music is both an escape and a call to arms for a lot of people.
It's also something that can be an education and a liberation, an emancipation. I mean, Bob Dylan singing those songs in the sixties going all the way through John Lennon, Bob Marley and, y'know, Bruce Springsteen too. But it's really interesting when you see people really be able to take it and get so much out there like The Clash. I think that in their time... it's ancient history already, twenty years ago... they had so much to offer and so much information. It made me, as a young child, have to really stay on my toes to get a consciousness of what was going on, especially with American Imperialism.
For a lot of people music is their only political education. They might not take any notice of the news but when it's put in a song, maybe they will.
Yeah, that's true. Well, it's like 'Free Nelson Mandela'; letting people know what that's about with just one simple thing. Things like "All we're saying is just give peace a chance, it could be so simple". You can raise a lot of people's awareness and once people are enlightened it's what they're gonna do with it that matters - are they brave enough to get off the couch? Are they brave enough to not have their cable TV or satellite or their iPod, or are they brave enough to take away some of these concerns and do something for future generations and for now? A lot of people are very uncomfortable or scared that they're not gonna get their Sopranos on TV that month or something.
Yeah. Things like Live Aid really drive that message home; that we can do something about it, when it's presented in that way.
I agree, a lot of those bands are my professors and teachers and in a funny way I've learnt about culture and all kinds of wacky things, depending on the artist. Yes, it's great that that can be a way... unless, y'know, you're listening to things that can teach you how to worship the devil or whatever... (laughter!)
I've learnt a lot about bands like The Clash and The Ramones through yourself and other artists that are around at the moment. Do you feel it's part of your role as a musician living and working now to keep the legacies of these older bands alive?
Well, whenever I'd go see bands like The Clash as a kid, or The Ramones, they were into old garage bands and they were into stuff from the fifties and sixties like Lee Dorsey and Sam and Dave. They turned me onto a lot of stuff like Bo Diddley, Gregory Isaacs... old reggae stuff, Jimmy Cliff. Through The Ramones I mighta gotten into Trashmen and so many old fifties cool songs 'cause that was what they grew up on. I'll cover songs like 'Death or Glory' or 'Oliver's Army' by Elvis Costello. Those are my oldies, so I feel that I like to play stuff that has influenced me, whether it be Neil Young or Springsteen or The Clash or The Ramones. For me it's definitely that stuff that's been in the ingredients to make me who I am, and I think that was also a great part of listening to other artists; to go do research and say "Alright, well you like Springsteen - there's also Dylan, there's Johnny Cash, there's Woody Guthrie, there's Leadbelly... " It goes back, it's all on guitar and it's got a voice.
Yeah, we were just talking about this kind of thing before we came in; that excitement of linking up bands and artists, discovering new favourites through old ones...
There's just a lot of stuff connected in different ways, wherever you wanna go. But, when we were younger, I'm not saying "In my day, it was better" or whatever, but it was harder, it made it more special. You had to know someone older who had a pile of books, you had to go to record stores... now you just go to Google. Which is good, but the kids really don't know and they just really don't have the interest 'cause it's all out there on the Internet and you can find out about anything.
It's cool how gigs can do the same thing. You'll play covers of songs by other artists who we'll then go check out, or your support band will be worth a look...
I always try to bring different acts over that people haven't heard and support my friends or artists I like and pass the torch as was done for me by Counting Crows, Springsteen and Ryan (Adams). I just like to keep doing that, whatever level I'm at, hopefully I can be in a position to bring out even more.
It does seem to be a really friendly community you all have over there in New York.
Yeah, we gotta support each other because the labels don't give a shit. They only care about money. We care about the art, we care about each other as people, so someone's gotta help each other out.
Have you started thinking about the next record at all?
I just have ideas of what I wanna do but I haven't sat down to write about them... I've been touring so much, it's just constant. But I'm excited by it, driven by it, hopefully getting better at it, stronger at it... you just get exhausted by it at times, but when the lights come on it seems to all come together and the people... that's what it's all about, when you see that and you're pushed to take off. The next record, I definitely want it to be a progression. It's my third record so I'm gonna be pretty meticulous, I'm gonna try and write a LOT of material. I think when the touring ends I'm gonna isolate myself and sit there with a four-track and guitar. I got a lotta stuff building up, it's like... I let it all build up and then I go and puke it all out. To make it pretty like that, so to speak.
You have a good following here, do you enjoy playing in Britain? I think fans really appreciate an American artist coming out so much. You've been here, what, four times in the last couple of years?
I think that the people have a lot of soul here. Liverpool's my favourite place. But I like London and Leeds was great the other night... I just enjoy touring. America's been picking up a lot of 'The Heat' actually, it's been doing even better in America than over here this time. We're trying to give that area as much attention as possible. We'll go back out again soon.
To finish with, I know this is kinda tough, but if there were one song, one record or one band that really sticks in your mind and means a lot to you, what would it be? Something that's had a big effect on you.
Aw man, it's hard being in this position... in the chair! Uh... the clock is ticking... erm... 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' I think, Elton John.
Why? If I can ask...
I think it's about getting away, breaking away from a scene that's not right, searching for something better, something that's more for your soul. Every time I hear it, it sounds really fresh. I could give ya about fifty o' these and then pick the weird ones...
I'm sorry!
At this point Tommy Stinson nips in to grab some beers, much to my joy!
Okay, last question! It's sort of along the same lines - if you could leave just one song of yours behind, what would it be?
I guess 'Brooklyn'. I guess the story behind it, there's a lotta good lines in it. It always seems to work, every time I play it, it seems to ring true, it holds up, it seems to stay in the set.
Yeah, it seems to be the one that really unites the crowd, and the lyrics are so simple yet they say so much.
Yeah. I saw Springsteen once say that for a good rock song all you need is one really great line; you have that, you got the key. There's the line in one of his songs, 'Highway 29':
"It was a small-town bank,
It was a mess,
Well I had a gun,
You know the rest"
That says it all! Thankyou very much for giving up your time.
Well, thankyou!
Huge thanks to Jesse for his ace-ness, amiability and hospitality. Eternal sorriness to Michael for losing his dictaphone.
